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Everything is relative and I hope you enjoy your Lumina. Bye, bye George. George Rath <rath@apple.com> wrote: >I just can agree with Valery. I do not own Saturn and I can consider >it maybe if they bring the Opel Vectra as Saturn in 1998. I spoke with >a Saturn salesman (a very rare kind of sincere one) in one of their >dealerships (I won't tell the name of that dealership) and he >confirmed, what I felt before. >Basically, what we did agree, that Saturn made a perfect brainwashing >with the "no-haggle price" and "the best quality of any car made in >U.S.". Actually, if you see, they succeed. I think, the "quality" of >the car is asubjetive matter: you spend $15000 or $20000 or maybe even >more - and you will a perfect machine for that amount of money. No >wonder, Volvo owners may complain more... they may be just >perfectionists. On the other side, with a good amount of brainwashing, >the car manufacturer can influence its customers. >The sales guy agreed to this...And just laughed. >A former colleague of me bought a 1996 SL2. Well, I sat in his car... >I bought a 1995 Chevy Lumina LS with 3.4L motor for ca. $17000 (last >year model, brand new, no miles, no recalls, minor complains on my >side - I am picky). My car was just ca. $1500 more, than his car - but >it is far, far, far better. (Of course, the gas mileage is worse in a >large car, than in a compact one...but SL2 doesn't has 215 horses) >Now you can buy new (not used or "program" cars) near-luxury cars, >like 1995 left-over Mitsubishi Diamante LS for around 20K. If you make >your homework and research the price correctly, the Saturn's "one >price" bul...it is just your disadvantage. True, the Saturn cars are >quite fair engineered (the cheapo plastic interior design is an other >story), but their price is simply too high if you really buy the >options you like. (Aircon, auto, cruse package). >The "wonderfull" depreciation of Saturn cars is the other brainwash. >True, Saturn depreciate the least comparing to the MSRP of the car. >But if you buy your Chevy, Volvo, Mazda, Ford, etc. at MSRP (I speak >about "regular" sedans or so, not about the "hot" cars) you made a >big, big mistake. Here is the point: Diamante LS may have a MSRP over >30K, if equipped with leather and so on. A one year old car's value is >just barely over 20K. So, Saturn says, Mitsubishi has an awfull >depreciation in the first year. And they are "almost" right. The >dealers had time to time a very big initiative for Mitsubishi, and >they discounted that car over and over. You can buy it now bellow the >"Blue Book"...as a new car, so, actually, the car's value as used is >higher, than if you buy it now as new. A paradox situation, but true. >My Chevy Lumina LS 's retail value (take the Blue Book or Edmund's) as >USED car is today actually higher, than the price I paid for it as NEW >car. And that Chevy is not a "hot" car at all... >Probably I would buy maybe a Mitsubishi Diamante LS today, not the >Chevy simply because it is a bargain now. >Basically, if a dealer or car manufacturer promises you an easy >worry-free way (and free from any homework, research and thinking >before going to the dealership) to get a wonderful car and it won't >cost you a LOT of extra money, and what they promise is true - than >you are living on an other planet! >I appreciate the Saturn's efforts to manufacture and their cars...But >it isn't "an other kind of company". Same guys, just different (and >not necessarily clean) methods to market. >Still, if they bring Opel Vectra I may think about them, but not >until. >George Rath --Mel-- 96 SL2m LtGn/Gr AC CC ABS