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Lou <lou.philly@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >Karen Allendoerfer wrote: >> >What is so hard to accept about that? It is only your bible-training that >> >has brainwashed you into thinking that those who don't accept the bible >> >must hate their lives. I love my own life; why on earth would I not? >> > >> >Jim >> >> Just to be clear here; I was trying to figure out what Pam meant, and >> what the Christian position was. >The Christian position is that fallen man does hate himself. He does hate >his life. He hates himself so much that he ensures he will be eternally >punished. [snip...Christian bullshit] Ahem. Excuse me? You presume to tell me how I feel about my life? You're obviously a very naive and unsophisticated person. Have you actually read the bible? With comprehension? Obviously not, because if you had you wouldn't be able to stand behind it with such confidence. What you said in the above post sounds to me like the kind of watered-down crap that's typically passed down from parent to child by word of mouth. Try looking for most of it in your "bible" and you probably won't find any of it there. Actually, it is because I care about myself that I'm not willing to subject myself to the rigors of the Christian religion, or to accept dogma without question, or believe that atrocious and cruel acts can be good and righteous, or brainwash myself into fearing that if I screw up somehow I'll burn in hell forever, or admit that my child is evil from birth and beat him with a rod, or to worship a God who gives me free will and then demands unerring obedience, or justify and defend all the multitudinous inaccuracies and inconsitencies in the "bible". In my opinion, the only reasons anyone would give in to these horrors is 1) stupidity and ignorance 2) desperation and lonliness 3) indoctrination in childhood and 4) fear of eternal damnation, the two latter being by far the most common. Actually, I do believe in God, and I do communicate with Him (He occasionally gives me advice on my life and problem solving). Your bible doesn't accurately describe what I have seen in God at all. Your God doesn't sound so much like a God, anyway; sounds more like a Devil. Maybe you should let go of your childish preconceptions and really try in earnest to understand your religion. Perhaps you ought to look at the brutal and vicious history of your religion (live "witch"burning and Hitler's murder of six million Jews only being a very small part). Perhaps you ought to look at the "Christ" in "Christian" for a change. I see a lot of Christians paying lipservice to the concept of Jesus as Lord, but I don't see anyone following his instructions to be good and loving and kind to everyone regardless of their level of "sin", or following in his footsteps. And as to this burning in Hell forever bullshit, it isn't in the bible. In Revelation there's a reference to a lake of fire, but there is nothing that says "eternal" lake of fire. Sure you'd like to defend it by saying, it's implied, it's up to interpretation, this other part of the bible says that it's eternal... But you know what? It's all bullshit rationalization. You can twist and contort just about any saying or writing to mean what you want it to, especially the incredibly profuse and archaic language in the "bible". That seems to me to be the whole problem. Jesus says, "Let the person without sin cast the first stone," meaning basically, Don't stone that adulterous woman, you're no better than she is, and people ignore it because maybe there was some junk in the old testament that said you not only should but are actually required to kill and maim and terrorize "sinful" people who never really hurt anyone, so they